Women are rising up the ranks throughout professional football, earning positions of power in a space that for too long was ruled almost exclusively by men. We're seeing more and more women breaking barriers in the sport, but what are the stories beyond the headlines? Who are the women shaping and influencing the NFL today? Answering those questions is the aim of the Next Woman Up series. While the conversational Q&As are edited and condensed for clarity, this is a forum for impactful women to share experiences in their own words. Without further ado, we introduce:
Kathleen Wood, Cleveland Browns
Position: Scouting/Personnel Assessment & Development
You were a private investigator for more than a decade before pivoting to football and scouting. Why did you want to make that career change?
I have loved the game from the time I was young, getting my love for football from my father and three older brothers and from going to Philadelphia Eagles games year after year. When I entered the workforce, there really weren't careers for women in football, period. I am curious by nature, and that's how I fell into my previous career as a private investigator and then in scouting. I met the late Tom Heckert Jr. back in 2003, when he was with the Eagles, and I remember talking to him once about scouting. I told him about my passion for scouting, sourcing information, fact-finding, putting pieces of a puzzle together and my aspirations. He sort of told me there weren't many women breaking barriers at the time, and I gently reminded him that there weren't any women who were 100 percent self-owned female private detectives in the state of Pennsylvania, either, but I broke that barrier. He was intrigued. Then in 2015, I received a message from him asking if I had seen that the Arizona Cardinals had hired Jen Welter. He also told me that he had just talked to Troy Vincent, the NFL's executive vice president of football operations, and he wanted me to send Troy a note about my interest in scouting.
Troy put me in contact with Rod Graves, a former general manager (with the Cardinals) who worked with Troy at the league office, and I met him at the NFL Scouting Combine. It wasn't like it is today, where there is a pathway for women to get into scouting or coaching. It was more like, "Hey, I'm interested in this." The league office, notably Sam Rapoport, was formulating a pipeline for women, but that was still in its infancy. I remember asking Troy what challenges and barriers I would face. My challenge was going to be building a scouting acumen.
So, when I went home from the combine that year, I found a third-party platform geared toward developing scouts, Dan Hatman's group at The Scouting Academy. That's how I began to learn about scouting. It's one thing to want to do it; it's another thing to understand what doing it actually means.
You did a number of fellowships and internships before becoming the Browns' northeast area scout. What are some of the takeaways from that time?
Each internship or fellowship was an opportunity to grow. I went down to Miami for a week in June 2017. I watched film, wrote one report and shadowed a scout around to position groups -- essentially learning what it would be like to be a scout. Then Joe Douglas, the Eagles' VP of player personnel (at that time; Douglas is now the Jets' general manager), brought me in for a weekend just to get to know me, and that went well. Soon after, Buffalo Bills general manager Brandon Beane offered me a fellowship, and as soon as I accepted it, I had an email from Joe wanting me to come to training camp. I ended up going to Buffalo, then Philly afterward.
Buffalo gave me the opportunity to scout a position group, sit in meetings, present my observations of that position group in a one-liner in front of scouts, coaches, front office members and ownership. That was a real moment, because you feel the stress. It was fantastic. That was the first stepping stone of gaining confidence, which is at the center of being a scout. You have to be confident in what you see and what you source. When I left Buffalo, I went to Philly and wrote up their entire roster. I was brought into a room where I presented full scouting reports with projections to groups of people.
These experiences enabled me to get better at my craft, build confidence in what I saw in my evaluations and help me convey that conviction. People would tell me early on to write what I see, which was some of the best advice I could've received early on. Having a foundation from The Scouting Academy -- I knew how to write a report -- also helped me have a little bit of an edge on others who were new to scouting.
I then applied for a scouting position in Buffalo and didn't get it. I was crushed, and I asked Brandon Beane to give me feedback. He had told me that the gentleman they hired had a lot of experience in schools. He had played the game, he had coached and worked at Clemson. He had connections. I totally understood and took that as a lesson to get into schools.
I started calling around to schools in the northeast area when I was at my home in Delaware. I asked if I could come and observe practice with other scouts, and some allowed me to do that. When I was at the University of Delaware, I ran into Scott Pioli, whom I had met at the 2018 NFL Women's Forum. He saw me at the 50-yard line with my head on a swivel, and he ended up helping me get more opportunities in the northeast. I was basically doing what a scouting assistant would do, going to schools and gaining more experience in what it felt like to travel to a school and source player information. That was another advancement that led to my opportunity as a southeast regional scout for Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy in 2019.
I was at a whole host of schools. I wasn't digging and sourcing as much as you would if you were with an NFL team, but just enough that I would hit the touchpoints of each individual school to get a feel for the culture. It was a fantastic year working for Jim. He recommended me to (Browns general manager) Andrew Berry, who ended up hiring me in 2020.
What did your job as Cleveland's northeast area scout entail?
I was hired during the pandemic, so that was kind of strange. Because we weren't on the road that year, I handled schools in the Midwest and did a lot of pro scouting. I was out on the road in 2021, 2022 and 2023, scouting every draft-eligible player from Virginia to Maine and over to West Virginia.
I spent 175 to 200 days on the road each year. It was really fascinating, and I loved the job. There are so many fantastic people on the college side. I believe football, like everything, is about developing quality relationships, and I've gotten to do that both at the pro and college levels. I love the grind of being on the road, even though there are a lot of stressors that come with it. You probably spend as much time in your car as you do in a school, just getting from Point A to Point B. To give you an example: Last year, I did 75 school visits between practice and games from July to November, and I ended up writing reports for roughly 370 players.
Wow! That's a lot. Thank you for putting that in perspective. What are your responsibilities in your new role?
I still cross-check responsibilities with certain schools in the northeast that I go to. As a college scout, we go out and build our own assessment of our own players. Now I am involved in an in-house process where all this information pours in from scouts and different touchpoints of the organization -- information that's available to us to help make decisions on players. We work through all that information to try to look for areas where we need to go further with a player. It ultimately culminates in presenting an initial development plan for a player when they enter the league. There is a group of us that go through this process.
I'm also being tasked with bringing in some innovation on decision-making. I'm doing a multitude of tasks, but still doing what I love, which is evaluating players. At the end of the day, I'm trying to drive better decision-making.
What would you say is the most challenging part of your role?
It's probably work-life balance. Football is a way of life. It's not just a job. When you're on the road roughly 200 days per year, it's demanding. At the end of the day, the hunt for the information and the love of the game is what drives you. What I've learned is to really structure myself when I need down time or to decompress. It's really important. I'm a "go, go, go" person, so that can be hard, because there is so much you can continually do. So, finding that balance of getting your work done and self-care is important, because you will begin to run into walls. A lot of people are great at their jobs, but taking care of ourselves is something we all can get better at.
Absolutely. Was there anything that surprised you about the process of learning to scout?
We grow up watching the game as fans, so you watch the game differently than when you're watching critically to evaluate specific tools and traits. I would just say what's so unique about it is the way players are broken down, the way certain tools and traits are valued and how decisions are made based on that. How a guy produces can be many different things. I remember my very first mentor said to me, "This is a big man's game, so you need to tell me why this big man can't play and why this little man can play." It's the truth.
Do you have a favorite moment from your time with the Browns?
It's when we broke the 18-year playoff drought in 2020, when we beat Pittsburgh in Week 17. It was monumental. It was so challenging for everyone in different ways because it was the pandemic, but everyone stuck together and did their jobs. When the text messaging took place the night we got into the playoffs, the people who had been in the building for so long, you felt such elation for them. There is nothing more exciting than being unified in one goal.
Do you have any mentors? And what advice have you held onto as you've gone through your career?
I'm a true believer in mentorship. I started the mentorship program in our scouting department between our junior and senior scouts. I mentor both personally and professionally, because I believe we don't get anywhere on our own. I'm so thankful for the men and women in my life, because I am where I am based on those mentorship-type relationships. I had so many mentors in my private detective field and people in the business world who helped formulate my acumen when I had my company, and there have been many in football.
Rod Graves, Scott Pioli, and there are just so many others who have helped me. I remember when I was doing all of these internships but wasn't getting my full-time opportunities, I called Rod and asked him, "Am I kidding myself?" He said, "You're not." And I asked him to give me some real advice about what I should do. "If you were my daughter, I'd tell you, 'Don't quit.' You're on the doorstep." I really trusted in that.
The common thread throughout all the mentorship and mentoring: Men and women have given their time so selflessly, and they were truly invested. I've really taken that to heart with the women at the college level whom I have identified as talented in this field. I have helped them get into the women's forum and help prep them for interviews. I truly invest my time, because it's meaningful, and it's good for my spirit.
Some of the best advice came Andrew Berry. We were on a Zoom call, and he said, "Get comfortable being uncomfortable." When I look back at every phase of my development in football, I have been stretched. You do develop that muscle of uncomfortability. I always think of that. Everyone feels that way in their careers at some point. As we grow and ascend, we're always taking on more.
You mentioned being a mentor. What advice do you give to women who want to be in a scouting role?
It's highly competitive. There's a lot of rejection, but don't quit. Keep building relationships and looking for opportunities. For women who get in the door, it's about trusting the leadership and doing the work -- not title-chasing. Dominate the space you're in, and you'll go places. What's most important is to be a good teammate, be open to learning, bring solutions and to be kind.
That's great advice. Lastly, what are you most proud of in your football career?
There are two things. I've always been proud of the barriers I've broken as a female in both careers, in my detective agency and getting into football. When I think of being proud, it's not just me. It's the women who got in early on and set standards and allowed others to follow.
I'm also really proud to work for this organization. Owner Dee Haslam has been out in the forefront of inclusion for years. Since I was hired in 2020, I think we've almost quadrupled our female representation in football operations. I'm very proud.
Women in general are getting into football and advancing based on merit. That, to me, is what I'm most proud of: the advances women have made in football. I'd like to think I have a little, tiny part in that. It's taken tremendous leadership and courage of people to get to where we are.
